A Muslim acquaintance of mine once got into a conversation about how much they love Ramadan, how they wish it were longer, etc. I told him (semi-jokingly, just to test the waters, so to speak) that he ought to try Lent, because then he's guaranteed …
Sorry, Biboboy, but the Latin Church has not been Orthodox for many, many centuries, so saying that their Mass was Orthodox while the church praying it was not doesn't really make much sense. I think I know the way that you might have meant it (it w…
There's inculturation and then there's abandoning yourselves to attract people who would otherwise think you're too weird. Inculturation happens naturally, and I don't know why anyone here should be against it. The other idea is unacceptable, howeve…
Okay, but that didn't really answer my question: If it is necessary to know the author of a hymn before it can be accepted (i.e., as a means of authentication), do we know the authors of the many non-problematic hymns? Or does it only become necessa…
I ask this because it is the translation is what gives the hymn its meaning. Otherwise, we would be like the pagans as the Bible says. So, if we cannot get an accurate translation of the hymn, then we are in essence saying something we do not know w…
[quote author=ophadece link=topic=11962.msg142677#msg142677 date=1312666475]
Indian English? What? Are you serious? Is there something called Indian English with 13 (or however many) sub-dialects? You are joking, aren't you?[/quote]
I haven't read …
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11998.msg142678#msg142678 date=1312669740]
Very good point. However, do you understand Greek? Do you honestly understand the hymn when you are singing without referring either to the Coptic or English?[/quote]
I'm …
It doesn't seem like HG agrees that the hymn is heretical, only that it is confusing (I agree). I do not understand how it is heretical because of the Arabic translation when the original language of the hymn is Greek, not Arabic. (As I understand i…
[quote author=Unworthy1 link=topic=11903.msg142564#msg142564 date=1312511304]
Sure, but some cultures may have traditional melodies that are incompatible with an Orthodox way. When the two conflict, the people's traditions must be adjusted.
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Unworthy1, while I personally have no problem using the Coptic tunes (I have a problem accurately producing them, but that's another story), I understand that others might not find them inherently beautiful and appropriate as I do. Is it possible to…
Fr. Peter, what then would you recommend in a situation where this is not happening? The ideal is that every person be preached to and as many liturgies as possible be conducted in the national language (or the local language, in the case of Africa …
[quote author=mabsoota link=topic=11903.msg142534#msg142534 date=1312450948]
but it seems the problems you describe are particularly relevant to your belgium church; things elsewhere in the diaspora don't seem so bad, and certainly in the last few …
Zoxsasi, I understand where you're coming from, but I think a more understanding attitude about attempts at liturgies in the local (unfamiliar, for the priest) language could help your conversations with the priest. Maybe it wasn't great, yeah, but …
[quote author=Zoxsasi link=topic=11903.msg142501#msg142501 date=1312381222]
What are you talking about?? READ THE COMMENTS IN THE NEWS COLUMNS!!! The british people are appalled at the apathy of immigrants to their culture. Our coptic priests are N…
That is an absolutely unfair and silly comparison, Zoxsasi. There is a world of difference between not being able to speak a given language (as in not being fluent, which is the likely case of the priests you're dealing with), and flat-out refusing …
It is heretical because as I stated already it is not proper to vivisect our Lord Christ or the Theotokos, or any of the saints, for the purposes of worship. I didn't come up with this idea myself. This is the Orthodox position.
St. Athanasius of Al…
I thought Zoxsasi was an "ethnic" (or whatever you'd call it) Belgian? Hmmm. At any rate, can we please not cut each other down with condescending titles like "sweetie" or talk about "YOU people" or whatever? This is not becoming of us as Christians…
What about it? All that "hearts of Jesus and Mary" stuff is heretical nonsense, based on post-great schism (AD 1054) developments in Latin monasteries, with the actual cults surrounding them (with specific devotions to them and whatnot) developing e…
Sorry, imikhail. This was to address the wider issue of the church being an Arabic-speaking social club (in Zoxsasi's view), and specifically Father Peter's appeal to the naturally changing makeup of the church, somewhat rejected (?) by Ophadece. My…
Linguistically-speaking (which is to say, without reference to Orthodoxy or how any of us feel things should be), Father Peter's point regarding the future linguistic makeup of the church or the wider Coptic community in the diaspora is very well do…
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11903.msg142054#msg142054 date=1311819480]
Mikhail, the OCA has its roots in the Russian Orthodox Church, not Greek.
And where does the Russian Church have its roots?
[/quote]
I understand what you're getting at,…
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=11903.msg142047#msg142047 date=1311809063]
[quote author=dzheremi link=topic=11903.msg142026#msg142026 date=1311793071]
Now, I suspect that the OO position might be slightly more nuanced than this, as the communion …
Mikhail, the OCA has its roots in the Russian Orthodox Church, not Greek. As far as long hymns are concerned, I suppose that depends on what you consider long. I have attended the OCA where 10 minute hymns are sung, and 2 minute hymns are sung. It d…
Sure, sure. I'm just saying that this essentially what you have in OCA with regards to its ties to its Russian mother church, but it is not really to cater to the American culture specifically. Forgive me, but I read your previous post as saying ess…
I meant a church full of Americans, primarily not of Egyptian heritage, worshiping according to the norms established by the Coptic Orthodox Church. Call it whatever you want. That's not the important part of the post.
I suppose there is a rather successful parallel to this situation in the Orthodox Church in America (Russian Orthodoxy's "missionary church" to Americans). I don't know if any of you have ever been to an OCA church, but while it is very much "Americ…
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=11903.msg141965#msg141965 date=1311702753]
People may like Orthodoxy, may like the Coptic Church but may not necessarily get emotional over her music. I do not want the Coptic heritage to be a stumbling stone in a…
Stavro: Why are these our only choices? I don't think anyone in this thread wants anyone to be excluded for the sake of evangelism of non-Copts. That seems like it's basically the same problem as Zoxsasi is describing, but in the opposite direction.…
[quote author=Remnkemi link=topic=11903.msg141935#msg141935 date=1311647866]
Jeremy, don't misunderstand me. Cultural experience is integrally involved with the Christian experience. I would not be surprised that all other churches are just as cult…